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  • is this doctrine valid - a sthanakvasi svetambra jain - accepts 32 agamas, what other valid scripture can he accept that mentions ishvar - the supreme lord, can he also accept 2 tirthankaras as 24 teachers to humanity, and how would a sthanakvasi vetambra
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    Jain Follower

    is this doctrine valid - a sthanakvasi svetambra jain - accepts 32 agamas, what other valid scripture can he accept that mentions ishvar - the supreme lord, can he also accept 2 tirthankaras as 24 teachers to humanity, and how would a sthanakvasi vetambra

    8 months ago 74

    I’ll keep this fully within Jain teaching, but I’ll use Christian language and comparisons so it is easier for you as a Methodist to “map” what your mother believes.

    I’ll go point by point.

    ---

    1. For a Sthanakvasi Śvetāmbara, are the 32 Āgamas the main valid scriptures?

    Yes.

    • Sthanakvasi are a non‑idol‑worshipping sub‑sect of Śvetāmbara Jains.
    • Like other Śvetāmbaras, they accept the Jain Āgamas as their core scripture, but traditionally they recognize a set of 32 texts as especially authoritative. ( jainknowledge.com)

    So, for your mother’s sect, “Bible” ≈ “32 Āgamas + later Jain commentaries and manuals (like Pratikraman sutras, etc.)”.

    You can read more here

    ---

    2. Can she accept other scriptures that mention “Īśvar / Supreme Lord”?

    Here is an important doctrinal point:

    • Classical Jainism (both Digambar and Śvetāmbara, including Sthanakvasi) does not teach a creator‑God like the Abrahamic “God the Father”.
    • The word Īśvar or Bhagavān might appear in some Jain or later devotional texts, but it means “supremely perfected liberated being” (a Siddha or Tīrthaṅkara), not an all‑powerful creator or controller of the universe.

    So, for a doctrine‑faithful Sthanakvasi:

    • She can accept Jain texts that use “Īśvar/Bhagavān” in this Jain sense: the perfect, liberated soul who has destroyed all karma and is a spiritual ideal.
    • She cannot (while staying fully within standard Jain doctrine) accept any scripture that says:
    - God created the world from nothing - God controls everything by will - God forgives sins like a judge

    – because Jainism explicitly denies a creator‑God and sees the universe as beginningless and governed by karma, not divine will.

    So: yes, she can accept talk of a “Supreme Lord” only if that “Lord” = perfected, non‑creating, liberated soul; not “Yahweh” or “Heavenly Father” in the Christian sense.

    ---

    3. Can a Jain accept “2 Tīrthaṅkaras as 24 teachers to humanity”?

    Doctrinally, no.

    Sound Jain doctrine (across sects):

    • In each “half‑cycle” of cosmic time, there are 24 Tīrthaṅkaras.
    • We are in the current descending half‑cycle; Mahāvīra is the 24th of these 24.
    • These 24 are the supreme teachers of the path of liberation for this time‑cycle.

    To say “only two of them are teachers to humanity” is not Jain doctrine. Every Tīrthaṅkara is:

    • Omniscient (keval‑jñānī)
    • Establishes the community (saṅgha)
    • Teaches the same core dharma: ahimsā, truth, non‑possessiveness, etc.

    You may personally feel especially close to one or two (like how a Christian might focus on Jesus and maybe Paul), but doctrinally:

    • A proper Sthanakvasi Śvetāmbara accepts all 24 Tīrthaṅkaras as teachers.

    ---

    4. What does a Sthanakvasi “temple” look like and what do they do there?

    Place: Sthānak, not “temple” with idols

    • Sthanakvasi use sthānak – a simple hall or room used for:
    - Listening to sermons (pravachan) - Group prayers and recitations - Meditation and scriptural study ( jainknowledge.com)

    No idols, no elaborate altars, no image‑worship.

    Visually, for you as a Methodist:

    • Think more like a plain meeting hall or a very simple church hall with chairs and a small stage,
    • Not like a Catholic church full of statues and altars.

    You can read more here and here

    Activities in a sthānak

    Typical things that happen:

    • Collective Pratikraman – daily or periodic confession and repentance:
    - reviewing the day - admitting harm done (knowingly or unknowingly) - asking forgiveness from all living beings
    • Sermons by monks/nuns – explanation of scripture and ethics
    • Chanting and recitation – especially the Navkār Mantra and other sutras
    • Meditation – silence, awareness of the soul and detachment
    • Festivals like Paryushan – extra fasting, long pratikraman, forgiveness (Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ) ( jainknowledge.com)

    Very little external ritual; focus is on inner purity and ethical living.

    ---

    5. Who / what do they pray to, and what do they chant?

    Main object of reverence

    Sthanakvasi, like all Jains, ultimately revere:

    • The Arihants – living Tīrthaṅkaras (when they are present)
    • The Siddhas – liberated souls beyond rebirth
    • The Ācāryas, Upādhyāyas, Sādhus – ideal teachers and monks

    But they are not creators and do not forgive sins in the Christian sense. They are perfect role models and a spiritual focus.

    Core prayer: Navkār Mantra (Namokar Mantra)

    This is the central Jain prayer. In plain English meaning (not verbatim):

    • I bow to the Arihants (fully enlightened beings)
    • I bow to the Siddhas (liberated souls)
    • I bow to the Ācāryas (spiritual leaders)
    • I bow to the Upādhyāyas (scripture‑teachers)
    • I bow to all Sādhus (monks) and Sādhvīs (nuns)

    This mantra:

    • Does not mention a creator‑God
    • Is simply deep reverence for spiritually advanced beings
    • Is believed to purify the soul by turning the mind toward ultimate purity

    They also recite:

    • Kāyotsarga – standing or sitting in stillness, letting go of the body’s attachment
    • Pratikraman sutras – asking forgiveness from all beings, resolving not to repeat faults

    ---

    6. Explaining all this “in a Christian way” for you

    Here is a careful mapping that keeps Jain doctrine intact, but uses ideas you know:

    6.1 God vs. the Jain “Supreme”

    • In Christianity:
    - God is personal, creator, sovereign, judge, saviour.
    • In Jainism:
    - There is no creator God. - The “highest reality” is the pure soul, completely free of sin/karma, called Siddha. - Many souls can reach that state; they are all equal in perfection.

    So if you try to compare:

    • “God” in your sense does not exist in Jainism.
    • The closest feeling may be: the state of total holiness and the community of all perfected beings.

    If you say in Christian language:

    > “Mom, for you, the ‘highest’ is not a Person who made the world, but a state of total spiritual purity that souls can reach – and the 24 Tirthankaras are the clearest teachers and examples of that.”

    – that is quite accurate Jain‑wise.

    6.2 Jesus vs. Tīrthaṅkara

    You: Jesus is Lord, unique Son of God, Savior. Your mother (as Sthanakvasi Jain):

    • Will see Mahāvīra and the 24 Tīrthaṅkaras as:
    - Completely enlightened teachers - Who show the path of self‑effort, not grace - Not incarnations of a creator‑God, and not mediators of forgiveness

    So a rough, respectful mapping:

    • Tīrthaṅkaras are like perfect prophets / apostles / saints,
    • But with infinite knowledge and with a role of founding the spiritual community.
    • They do not die for anyone’s sins, and they cannot remove karma; each soul has to purify itself.

    6.3 Sin, karma, and forgiveness

    • Christianity:
    - Sin is against God. - Forgiveness is by God’s mercy through Christ.
    • Jainism:
    - Wrong actions, words, and thoughts create karma, a real “subtle matter” that binds to the soul. - Nobody – not even a Tīrthaṅkara – can magically erase your karma. - You purify it by: - repentance (pratikraman) - self‑control - non‑violence and truthfulness - austerities and meditation

    Forgiveness in Jainism:

    • When your mother says “Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ” at Paryushan, she’s saying:
    - “If I have hurt you in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, may that be forgiven.”
    • This is between souls; no God is mediating.

    You can read more here

    6.4 How a Christian could “understand” her practice without changing her doctrine

    If you want an “Abraham‑adapted but doctrinally valid” understanding (for you, not for her creed), you could think:

    • Her “worship” ≈ your deep respect for Jesus + saints, but:
    - She is not expecting rescue or grace from above. - She is asking inspiration and focusing her mind on purity, non‑violence, and self‑discipline.
    • Her sthānak ≈ a very simple church with no cross, no images:
    - People sit, listen to a sermon, confess, ask forgiveness, resolve to live better.
    • Her Navkār Mantra ≈ a combination of:
    - Praise of holiness - Remembering the “cloud of witnesses” (Hebrews 12) - But with no God behind it; just perfected souls to look up to.

    If you actually tried to say a Jain‑compatible sentence in Christian words, it could be like:

    > “I honour the fully purified souls and the great teachers who show the way to non‑violence, truth and liberation. I want to follow their path of holiness.”

    That keeps the Jain meaning, even if your own personal belief is that “Jesus is Lord”.

    ---

    7. Where this leaves your own belief and your mother’s

    From a Jain doctrinal point of view:

    • She should stay with:
    - 24 Tīrthaṅkaras as teachers - No creator God - Āgamas and later Jain texts as authority - Sthānakvasi non‑idol, inner‑oriented practice

    From a Christian point of view (your own faith):

    • You will continue to see Jesus as Lord and Savior,
    • But you can understand that your mother’s devotion is about:
    - imitating perfect non‑violence and detachment - purifying her soul through her own effort - respecting the perfected beings as ideals, not as creators or judges.

    This way you can talk to her respectfully without asking her to compromise Jain doctrine, and without you compromising that “Jesus is Lord” for you.

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