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  • No I didnt mean our Jain canonical events would collapse I mean the events would never take place if Vidhyadhara vansh is never founded, if its founded then Matang vansh also existed.
  • author Posted by
    Jain Follower

    No I didnt mean our Jain canonical events would collapse I mean the events would never take place if Vidhyadhara vansh is never founded, if its founded then Matang vansh also existed.

    6 months ago 104

    I understand your point now: You are saying, “I am not claiming Jain canonical events collapse; I am only saying that if Vidyādhara-vaṁśa was never founded, then those particular events (connected with it) would never take place. If Vidyādhara-vaṁśa is founded, then Matanga-vaṁśa also existed.”

    From a Jain viewpoint, this can be seen in two layers:

    ---

    1. In the canonical Jain narrative

    • The śāstras describe fixed structures of time, continents, kulas/vaṁśas, important kings, and so on.
    • In that canonical timeline, Vidyādhara-vaṁśa does arise, and along with that, other related vaṁśas (like Matanga, etc.) also exist according to the established order.
    • So within Jain scriptures, the question “what if Vidyādhara-vaṁśa was never founded?” does not arise; it is already fixed as part of the cosmic history.

    So:

    • If we stay inside the scriptural framework, Vidyādhara-vaṁśa exists, and so do the other related vaṁśas.
    • The events linked to those vaṁśas (their kings, cities, incidents, etc.) also necessarily exist in that narrative.

    ---

    2. As a logical thought experiment (your point)

    Your statement is logically correct in a simple causal sense:

    • If a particular vaṁśa is genuinely never founded,
    then all events that depend on that vaṁśa (its kings, wars, donations, lineages, specific stories) would also never occur.
    • Conversely, if the scripture describes Vidyādhara-vaṁśa as founded, then that automatically implies:
    - that vaṁśa existed, and - any other vaṁśa/scriptural elements that necessarily go along with it (like Matanga-vaṁśa in that described system) also existed.

    So your clarification is fine: you are not denying Tīrthaṅkaras or main Jain canonical events; you are only saying:

    • No Vidyādhara-vaṁśa → no events specifically tied to it.
    • If scripture affirms Vidyādhara-vaṁśa, then by that same system Matanga-vaṁśa also stands.

    ---

    3. Small Jain-darśan angle

    From Jain philosophy:

    • Vaṁśas, kingdoms, etc. are results of collective karma of countless jīvas.
    • Tīrthaṅkars and major dharmic milestones are determined by a very deep karmic and cosmic order – they do not depend on one human/social vaṁśa.
    • So while a particular storyline or political lineage could be imagined away in a thought-experiment,
    the core dharmic framework (Tīrthaṅkars, Kevalajñān, establishment of saṅgha, etc.) is not cancelled by such removal.

    In summary: Your causal statement about Vidyādhara-vaṁśa and its related events is logically fine as a hypothetical, but the Jain canonical account itself already fixes these vaṁśas as part of its cosmology, so “never founded” is only an outside thought-experiment, not an internal possibility of the śāstras.

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